Curse

Konig Des Todes · Jun 15, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

Something to add, wasnt everyones favorite fleshbag born in Ascalon: ROTSCALE! Last time I checked, hes a dragon.

I actually didn't add that because that fact was born during the beta and other then that, I found no "Rotscale was made by the Stone Summit in Ascalon" statements. Although if you go to Free Runner's "Dragons throughout Guild Wars" thread, which is basically going on this and expanding it to all of GW, he does add that

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draxynnic · Jul 08, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

One thing to consider regarding the Ascalon/Dragon connection...

Ascalon is, according to the timeline, the oldest human settlement in Tyria (the oldest that survived up to the time of the Searing, anyway). Kryta, by contrast, is actually the youngest human settlement in the game, starting as an Ascalonian colony that gained independence after the exodus of the Gods.

So... Ascalon was founded before the gods left, and possibly before the Forgotten retreated. Rather than representing the primordial dragons, could this imagery have been originally intended to honour Glint, with its meaning possibly having been forgotten and become simply seen as a symbol of Ascalon among the Tyrian nations after the Exodus?

Konig Des Todes · Jul 08, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Ascalon was founded before the Forgotten retreated, and both Kryta and Orr were Ascalonian "colonies" that later seceded(information regard this fact is found in "The History of Tyria" in the Prophecies Manual). However, Glint, as far as I know, was not known to Ascalonians. I may be wrong about that, but the only humans I know that know of glint are the Elonian ghosts in the Crystal Desert, and through them, the players (or lore wise, Devona, Cynn, Mhenlo, Eve, Aiden).

It is possible that the dragon on the arches and on the mural in the Dead Isle/Asford Abby could be Glint, however the one in Gwen's Story is proven to be Primordus.

Free Runner · Jul 08, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Ascalon was founded before the Forgotten retreated, and both Kryta and Orr were Ascalonian "colonies" that later seceded(information regard this fact is found in "The History of Tyria" in the Prophecies Manual). However, Glint, as far as I know, was not known to Ascalonians. I may be wrong about that, but the only humans I know that know of glint are the Elonian ghosts in the Crystal Desert, and through them, the players (or lore wise, Devona, Cynn, Mhenlo, Eve, Aiden).

It is possible that the dragon on the arches and on the mural in the Dead Isle/Asford Abby could be Glint, however the one in Gwen's Story is proven to be Primordus.

I thought Draxynnic was actually talking about the Forgotton rather than Ascalonians. And its not yet proven the mural is Primordus.

Something i was wondering about Ascalon....the Ascalons Chosen have a symbol on their capes much like how other guilds do. This symbol shows up in Gwens Story aswell. However the exact same symbol appears on the Tome of the Rubicon which as far as i know was supposed to be written by the Great Dwarf and was part of the dwarfs history rather than humans......

draxynnic · Jul 08, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Ascalon was founded before the Forgotten retreated, and both Kryta and Orr were Ascalonian "colonies" that later seceded(information regard this fact is found in "The History of Tyria" in the Prophecies Manual). However, Glint, as far as I know, was not known to Ascalonians. I may be wrong about that, but the only humans I know that know of glint are the Elonian ghosts in the Crystal Desert, and through them, the players (or lore wise, Devona, Cynn, Mhenlo, Eve, Aiden).

It is possible that the dragon on the arches and on the mural in the Dead Isle/Asford Abby could be Glint, however the one in Gwen's Story is proven to be Primordus.

Ah, yes, I hadn't checked the timeline when I made the post. Hence the 'possibly'.

Still, part of the point of my second paragraph is that they may not know it's Glint that they're representations of - the original meaning has been forgotten. But it does seem less jarring for them to have images derived from Glint than of Primordius, Word of God be damned*.

It is possible, though, that this could be an even older racial memory and that humanity was in fact around at the time of the war between gods and dragons. Possibly the ancestors of the Ascalonians played an especially important role in Primordius' defeat and were granted the right to use his likeness in their heraldry as a reward?

*I do vaguely remember it being confirmed by the company that the likeness in Gwen's Story is of Primordius. But what do they know? They're only the writers...

Konig Des Todes · Jul 08, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I don't think the Ascalonians were part of any war against the Dragons. I say this because such a climatic event would be known and not so easily forgotten, much like the serpents leaving the hospitable world.

Also, the older races, such as the Charr, Seers, and Mursaat - and possibly others - would know of the war as well. Seeing how no races seem to know about the Dragons, I would say that any battle between the Gods and Dragons would have happened before the Forgotten came by, around the time of the Giganticus Lupicus mainly.

draxynnic · Jul 09, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I don't think the Ascalonians were part of any war against the Dragons. I say this because such a climatic event would be known and not so easily forgotten, much like the serpents leaving the hospitable world.

Not necassarily. In GW2, the history of humanity has largely only been preserved due to the efforts of the Order of Whispers - it's not impossible for this history to have been lost. Or possibly even deliberately erased by the gods - which we know has been done successfully within human-recorded history, so who knows what has been erased from before then?

Gmr Leon · Jul 09, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Orr was NOT an Ascalonian colony. Timeline from the Manuscripts which can be seen here: GuildWars.com
Makes it very clear that it just appeared out of nowhere as an independent nation.

2 AE: Orr becomes an independent nation.

Also, sources are the most wonderful thing in existence. If you think a writer said that one of the murals seen in Gwen's Story was Primordus have a source to prove it. A building cannot stand without support as a body cannot without bones.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

About the Orr thing Leon, it says Orr becomes independant. If it just "appeared" there, why was it dependant to? The only known Human settlement on that continent would be Ascalon, and seeing how they can't "become independant" from the gods 2 years after they leave, as they were still very religious, what else could they become independant from? Joko? It's rather simple thinking.

Orr became independant, never mentions from what, but the only likely thing would be from Ascalon. A simple deduction to mean that Orr was a colony, or vassal, of Ascalon.

And for your Primordus statement, it has been nearly unanimously agreed by players that the stained mural is of Primordus (and I believe there is a concept art that the mural is used from which has been stated to be concept for Primordus).

Free Runner · Jul 09, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Until its confirmed by Anet its just concept art of a dragon that reachs back to the days of Prophecies. It would probably help to ask Anet on the Official wiki has they have answered things before such as the Shiverpeak Bloodstone being the same one from Bloodstone Caves.

Gmr Leon · Jul 09, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

About the Orr thing Leon, it says Orr becomes independant. If it just "appeared" there, why was it dependant to? The only known Human settlement on that continent would be Ascalon, and seeing how they can't "become independant" from the gods 2 years after they leave, as they were still very religious, what else could they become independant from? Joko? It's rather simple thinking.

Orr became independant, never mentions from what, but the only likely thing would be from Ascalon. A simple deduction to mean that Orr was a colony, or vassal, of Ascalon.

It would seem like a simple deduction, but then you have to look at the fact that Kryta was mentioned as a colony and then it became independent. Why would you mention that and then not mention Orr being a colony? Also, what's wrong with Orr being a kingdom of the Gods before their Exodus? If Orr existed as a nation, but not as an independent one, it would explain how there is a record of the Exodus.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Just being the location of where the gods were is enough for Orr to record the Exodus and what the Gods were like back then. If Orr was never dependent on another kingdom, or on the Gods, it would say "Orr was founded," and if they were under the rule of the Gods, then they would become independant during the Exodus.

Not to mention that it is possible that the exact date of Orr's founding is unknown, so it could not be said when it became a colony. I mean, it was over a thousand years ago that Orr became independant. All we know of Orr's origin is that:

1. The Gods lived there.
2. It became independant in 2 AE
3. It was founded between 205BE (when humans arrived on Tyria) and 1 BE.

Thought:
What is Abaddon influenced the founding of Orr, seeing how "all knowledge of him" was "erased" by the other gods, if Abaddon had something to do with Orr's founding, than the gods would have removed that information from human knowledge. It is possible that they went as far as removing when Orr was founded, instead of just Abaddon's influence in the founding.

Lyndka · Jul 30, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

The glowing stones at Grendich are meant (I think) to be some sort of power source/soul battery and I have seen them somewhere else in Ascalon (at the end of the Surmia mission or in the graveyard in the Nolani Mission?) which made me think that.

My guess for them being at Grendich is that being a Courthouse it was linked to the rest of Ascalon by a Portal (as in the escape in the Surmia end cinematic) but the portal mechanism has gone/is buried. The portal mechanism is damaged at Nolani but the circular floor 'pad' crops up in other locations throughout the game (in Guild Halls too).

The Krytans or Elonians have teleporter technology - as can be seen in the desert around Augury Rock so a variation may well have been used by the Ascalonians

...or perhaps I ought to get out more?

draxynnic · Aug 01, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Is it actually specified that the teleporters are Elonian? They could just as easily be Forgotten... or Margonite.

Freke · Aug 03, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Mmhmm, to add to this dragon stuff: what about that huge ship sitting in Ice Floe to the west side, or any of the dwarven ships. Theyve got dragons plastered on their paperthin cloth sail thingers, and theyve got gold dragons on the front. (2) clawing out.

Capua · Aug 03, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freke

Mmhmm, to add to this dragon stuff: what about that huge ship sitting in Ice Floe to the west side, or any of the dwarven ships. Theyve got dragons plastered on their paperthin cloth sail thingers, and theyve got gold dragons on the front. (2) clawing out.

I believe those ships belong to the Brotherhood of the Dragon so that'd be glint.